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Bleach Chapter 520 Discussion
angervictor Wrote:What do you think about Shunsui's CC elevation? I think he is a better choice than Unohana, since she is needed in 4th division as well as a killing machine now.

I think he probably is the better choice. Everyone seems concerned with the potential for destruction that Kenpachi might represent. I don't believe that's an issue of power level so much as of attitude.

However, it looks like there may have been a similar issue with Unohana. She was held on a tight leash by Yamamoto, she herself has held back as much as possible from fighting on the front lines. Her very job gives everyone (including herself) an excuse to stay out of the fighting. It all adds up to someone that people in the know do not want in a position of command where they have free rein to do as they please (or more so than a normal captain, anyway).

In this sense (the sense the hints we've been given, especially in this chapter), Unohana probably is not a good choice for captain-commander on the basis of her instinct in battle, whatever that instinct may be fully revealed to be.

angervictor Wrote:Do you think Zaraki was not taught art of killing because he will become unstoppable? I think thats slightly far fetched. I think he can defeat many captains and VCs but ultimately will be stopped by Yama and Seniors. But I still did not get why did Yama only taught him for one day? And with one day training he one shotted Nnoitra? I hope Narita novel dosent become true. I like the way Kenpachi is now. Already we have 3-4 ppl in Yama level now. I dont want other guys too.

I think it's more complicated.

The issue about Kenpachi that I'm getting from this chapter isn't really about power. It's about attitude. At the end of the day, Yamamoto was a huge threat to the very existence of Soul Society itself should he have turned against it. Yet his sense of justice was so strong, and so compatible with the nature of the Central 46, the fear of him ever becoming an enemy was probably limited.

The fear raised by the Central 46 was one of attitude: what does Kenpachi believe in? What does he stand for? What motivates him to fight? We've already seen him turn against Soul Society and the rule of law for the sake of a good fight (the Soul Society arc when he decided to help Ichigo solely because it would give him a chance to fighting Ichigo again). He's a loose cannon in terms of attitude. He doesn't have the loyalty to the purpose for being that Central 46 probably felt existed within Yamamoto that didn't make him so much of a potential threat.

We know from Kenpachi's own take on the experience that he rejected the very philosophy behind Yamamoto's attempt to teach him. I therefore think Yamamoto stopped after a day precisely because of the reason I've outlined here: regardless of whether Kenpachi turns out to be more powerful than Yamamoto (and the possibility is real), the biggest issue was that Yamamoto probably realised he would never be able to control Kenpachi. He didn't have a way to chain Kenpachi, all he could do was make Kenpachi stronger. But without a way to temper that power, that power could be used for anything, and Kenpachi's current philosophy essentially means that power will be used for chaos.

That one day's training did something that hinted at what Kenpachi is capable of: think about what it was that Kenpachi displayed to Nnoitra. It was the first time in the entire manga where we saw Kenpachi actually work with his sword instead of against it. That's essentially what the two-handed swing philosophy boils down to, whether or not Kenpachi actually views it in that way. He saw it in terms of swinging with more power, but what it really does is to force the shinigami and the sword to become mere extensions of the other, in other words, the same being, creating the swing together. Kenpachi, probably without fully understanding why, was channelling his power the way a captain using shikai or bankai would channel their power through the releases of their sword... not that I'm saying this is limit of Kenpachi's power. I'm simply saying that swing, for one moment, forced Kenpachi and his sword into a shadow of harmony.

Unohana is going to be the person who breaks through Kenpachi's attitude to refocus not his power, but his attitude, into a weapon that will benefit Soul Society as opposed to oppose Soul Society. In other words, Unohana's job isn't simply to make Kenpachi achieve his potential, but to make him 'grow up' in the process. Kenpachi has to take responsibility. He cannot be carefree and put his own desires first anymore. He has a duty and he needs to find the best mentality to fulfull it.

I have no doubt this will be fulfilled in a Kenpachi-style way, but Unohana's job isn't simply to hone the power, it's to hone his very heart.

angervictor Wrote:And regarding the healing ponds. It seems to be a corrosive pond. How come Byakuaya and Renji and Rukia were able to withstand it? They were near death.

The potential they possess regardless of whether or not they've fully realised that potential and we've received signs that Byakuya hasn't reached his potential for the exact opposite reason of Kenpachi: Kenpachi needs discipline (especially self-discipline). Byakuya learned that lesson a long time ago, but went so far into it, he was lost to rule and propriety, to the extent where he lost touch with his own heart. Now he has to learn to free up his instinct so that his own power can flow more freely.

In both cases, we're talking about what an attitude shift can do for making one's heart whole and how making a heart whole can hone it to advance one's power. That's been Ichigo's entire journey and, to a lesser extent, it's a journey all the shinigami are going through, and it's partially because Ichigo is such an effective, instinctive, guide for them to follow.
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Pimpbankai3050 Wrote:It's so funny....zaraki's fan make a claim based on what they see in the manga...then zarakai haters come back with "Nothing in the manga says that, dumb speculation you're just a fanboy, koma-bro, hate hate hate"...then kubo leaves some more hints, and so on and so on

Honestly, people aren't going to respect Kenpachi until it's spelled out perfectly for them....it's been there the whole entire time

You speak true my padawan:nods:
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ive always thought that kenpachi scales himself to his opponent, and reading that book only made me confirm it lol

i mean every since he fought ichigo it was the only logical way he could have lost, he loses to noobie almost bankai ichigo, and then his next fight he rofl stomps 2 captains? power wise it makes 0 sense, its not that ichigo was stronger then koma before he had bankai or kenpachi was holding back, its that he scales himself to who hes fighting.

the stuff about aizen not wanting to fight him and his reaitsu beating a guy inside him is all meh, but the idea that hes like a power slider who lines up with his opponent is pretty legit, and the gotei realized this and let him do his thing hoping one day he would become loyal and they could teach him his full power, but then he was put against someone who so outclassed him that he had no time to scale up and lost.

so now they have to make him fight at this top level constantly b/c its the only way he will live, fighting bach should have been a huge wake up call for kenpachi and if it was not unohana is going to make it one and teach him how to fight at his fullest, something we have not seen yet since all his fights are not serious at all.

Also about yama teaching him i gotta agree that it was not a fear or him becoming to powerful, i doubt kenpachi is going to surpass bankai yama, there is a chance it happens but i doubt it, bankai yama is just too much, but i think he tried to teach him for a day and realized it was useless. remember that yama is not the most patient dude, he gets angry easily, and i imagine him teaching kenpachi was a terrible day for him, he most likely gave up b/c he thought teaching kenpachi was useless until he cared about learning, and at that time he had no reason to care.
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Tokoya Wrote:[quote=ArSoNiSt JoE]
[quote=Narubi]
Plus wasn't he one of the Bach's war potentials?

Yea, and this chapter further hinted at his "war potential".

Out of all the characters (besides Ichigo) Kenpachi by far has the most obvious potential if you ask me.

Here is a guy who pretty much relies on pure strength and battle instinct and yet is 1 of the more stronger Captains amongst their ranks.

Granted he isn't what I would call "high tier" he still definitely has the potential for it just by simply learning to communicate with his zan alone.

Add that with him actually learning to fight and kill properly and you have a MUCH more dangerous monster on your hand.

And Lets not even get into what bankai would add to that power...
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Alright read the chapter in full....

So Unohana was the first Kenpachi? More hype I see...I'm really curious to see what she could do.

Looks like the Kenpachi fans are really getting their money's worth, Kenpachi is pretty much one of the major factors in this arc, seeing that he supposedly has to potential to be even stronger. I guess that all those years of rooting for Kenpachi has paid off lol.

Well, nice to see that Ichigo and Renji are healed, and stronger now. This was a good chapter....really interested in seeing there things goe from here.
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ArSoNiSt JoE Wrote:Alright read the chapter in full....

So Unohana was the first Kenpachi? More hype I see...I'm really curious to see what she could do.

Looks like the Kenpachi fans are really getting their money's worth, Kenpachi is pretty much one of the major factors in this arc, seeing that he supposedly has to potential to be even stronger. I guess that all those years of rooting for Kenpachi has paid off lol.

Well, nice to see that Ichigo and Renji are healed, and stronger now. This was a good chapter....really interested in seeing there things goe from here.
Renji can tank punches from RGs.
Drop kick from a Quincy almost killed him :lol:
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grimmjow16 Wrote:
ArSoNiSt JoE Wrote:Alright read the chapter in full....

So Unohana was the first Kenpachi? More hype I see...I'm really curious to see what she could do.

Looks like the Kenpachi fans are really getting their money's worth, Kenpachi is pretty much one of the major factors in this arc, seeing that he supposedly has to potential to be even stronger. I guess that all those years of rooting for Kenpachi has paid off lol.

Well, nice to see that Ichigo and Renji are healed, and stronger now. This was a good chapter....really interested in seeing there things goe from here.
Renji can tank punches from RGs.
Drop kick from a Quincy almost killed him :lol:

Yo, just roll with it my dude. Renji can tank RG punches now, that's all that matters rofl.
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It is the POND OF UNLOCKING POTENTIAL.
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DEW Wrote:It is the POND OF UNLOCKING POTENTIAL.
Renji got super Kami Guru'd without even knowing
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Zigsa Wrote:...we've received signs that Byakuya hasn't reached his potential for the exact opposite reason of Kenpachi: Kenpachi needs discipline (especially self-discipline). Byakuya learned that lesson a long time ago, but went so far into it, he was lost to rule and propriety, to the extent where he lost touch with his own heart. Now he has to learn to free up his instinct so that his own power can flow more freely.

That's probably why he had problems dealing with Tsukishima and Asnodt especially.

I wonder how they're going to improve Renji and Rukia though, the latter was especially due some type of battle improvement a while ago.
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