Remove Ads

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The most Overrated/Underrated OP-Characters
#71
DEW Wrote:Also, Law is underrated. He can probably one-shot everyone sans Kizaru, Akainu & Eneru.

Doubt it. He's probably just the standard for the new VA levels (roughly).

Though you have to remember there's always certain types of fighters that'll outclass him easily (via ability etc).
Reply
#72
With the latest chapter I expect Law to be overrated as hell.
Reply
#73
Oben Wrote:He says he (first person) burned it down – sure you can interprete it this or that way, but given who he is in what environment, it is very likely he did it himself.
cnet128's translation:
Bobbin: Mama~~~~~~!!! / I just got back, boyoyoyoing!!
BigMam: Good, good... How did it go, Bobbin?
Bobbin: Perfect! It all went up in flames!!
BigMam: Excellent news... I always did adore that country's baked confections... // I can only imagine the wonderful scents of the entire country being baked through...a shame though it may be. // But it can't be helped. They failed to bake the confections they promised me.
Bobbin: Got any snacks?
BigMam: People who won't give me their sweets don't deserve to live. / And I can't stand people who promise me sweets and then fail to deliver. They're as terrible as bitter confections.
Bobbin: Oh, come to think of it... I heard that there might not be any sweets coming from Fishman Island this month either......


He never says he did it himself, and it's never implied that he went alone. So no go on the Bobbin argument, sorry. =)


Oben Wrote:The Shichibukai-title is given to whom the Gorosei believe to be strong – it is the assumption of strength that could make Buggy Shichibukai rather than him being infamous (renember the Gorosei’s meeting after the war. They explicitly stated they wanted STRONG new candidates.) Now, Buggy isn’t strong, but he is assumed to be strong, so he got the title.
Actually, you're basing that off of this translation, where it mentions strength. But cnet128's translation says this:
We should first wait to see how the New World responds. / The lay of power amongst the pirates, too, should be undergoing change. // We must select only those individuals with great influence.

Likewise, consider this page. Sengoku knows how that works. He knows that it doesn't matter how strong the individual is - if he isn't famous, he's worthless as a Shichibukai. The Shichibukai don't exist as a military force, so strength isn't the requirement. They are a political force, meant to scare people into not becoming pirates. So to become a Shichibukai, you only need to be feared across the globe, you need to have the commoners think you are strong (like with Buggy). If the Gorosei truly wanted strong individuals, don't you think they'd test the applicants? They don't. They don't really care about how strong or weak the Shichibukai are, they only care about their value as political weapons. Tools of propaganda.


Oben Wrote:Now, let’s get to the Yonkou – and, I’m very sorry to say this, they are different. We know that Blackbeard had to conquer WB’s territories to be announced Yonkou by the public – that means, he had not only to be assumed to have strength but also to PROVE to have strength. Therefore, Big Mam can’t just be compared to Buggy.
He had to conquer it, yes. But he didn't have to be strong himself to do that. Compare it to Buggy; Buggy has extremely strong followers (even Whitebeard commented on their strength), but he's a weakling. If he had enough strong followers, he could be a Yonkou by sending them to take over islands, without lifting a finger himself. It's a political title based on influence - and while influence is usually gained through personal strength, it doesn't have to be.
So yes, Big Mom might just have strong followers, and be a weakling herself. The Yonkou title doesn't guarantee anything, just like how the Shichibukai title doesn't.


Oben Wrote:And you tell me I’m making wild assumptions? How do you even know that DD’s cut works like that?
What tells you the cut doesn’t work like a whip and needs a bigger movemet (which is more likely, btw)? How do you know what effects Haki has on it at all?
Just some questions.
Luffy's pre-TS punches weren't negated with general CoA. Law's cuts weren't negated by general CoA hardening. If Law, who's still a rookie, can cut through CoA Hardening, why shouldn't Doflamingo be able to? He is implied to be way above Law, still. An assumption, obviously, but a reasonable one. *shrugs*
As for bigger movements, that is not correct. None of Doflamingo's attacks have ever had him swinging his arms, he's always just turned a finger. Sure, on this page he was jumping, but he wasn't moving his arm - and on this page it isn't at all implied that he moved his arm. If it was a "whip movement", why doesn't Doflamingo need to use his arms when he's controlling people? Shouldn't he have to move his arms like a real puppeteer? He doesn't. He just moves his fingers. His attacks just are that quick.


Oben Wrote:As for controlling I agree on that.
So what you're saying is that you agree that Doflamingo can control Big Mom quite easily, since we know it works on CoA users?
How would Big Mom defend herself against that? We have no reason at all to think she can, yet we are to assume she can because she's a Yonkou? Doflamingo's feats show that he has the ability to control even very powerful CoA users, by literally lifting but a finger. He is just that strong, and Big Mom has no known defense against it. Big Mom is the one who has things to prove, not Doflamingo.


Oben Wrote:We know from Crocodile, Marco etc. that a healthy WB would’ve been able to dodge .
You're either dodging, or missing, the point. =) The point is that the title and power of a Yonkou doesn't guarantee a defense against incredibly fast attacks. And Doflamingo's attacks are not only insanely fast, they're also invisible. Big Mom has no known defense against this, and her title of Yonkou is not a valid argument, since we know that this title doesn't work as a defense against fast attacks.


Oben Wrote:1. Is very unlikely. DD is what? 40? Big Mam seems to be a remnant from Roger’s age (given her comment on “Monkey D.”), so the chance he installed her are VERY slim.
Yeah, he's 41. And while I agree that she's been a pirate longer than he has, we don't know when she became a Yonkou. Doflamingo has been an influential pirate for a long time (with the whole Vergo business), so it isn't at all impossible that he installed her as a Yonkou. She might just have been a powerful pirate before that.


Oben Wrote:2. Why would DD allow her crew to watch the Shinokuni experiment? Why would they watch it in the first place (though they could very well be idiots, that’s true. But look at Baby 5 and Buffalo, they don’t seem to be epitomes of reason either)
Why wouldn't he want them to watch it?


Oben Wrote:First of all, DD didn’t toy with Jozu, he simply stopped his movements. But oh well, this is not much of importance here. Jozu, and this now is important, was not a top-level fighter. He was no match for Aokiji, and nothing indicates he would be for other top-level fighters.

Aokiji had no problems defeating Jozu. It was just the first punch given by surprise that harmed Aokiji, later on he clearly dominated the battle.
Actually, the surprise moment comes into play with Jozu, too – Jozu was busy beating the crap out of Crocodile, so DD had easy play catching him.
Actually, Aokiji was never shown dominating the battle until Jozu was busy worrying about Whitebeard and Marco. We don't see the battle until that point.
By "top-level", I don't mean Yonkiral-level, obviously. But top-level below that? Of course he was. He is indicated to be much stronger than people like Onigumo, for example. Doflamingo sat on his back and laughed, which means he was toying with him. He was literally laughing, and was talking to Crocodile.
So by this logic, Doflamingo is indicated to be roughly as strong as Aokiji, who could fight equally with Akainu and Whitebeard. Which puts Doflamingo in the Yonkiral league based on feats and comparisons. Vague, but not invalid, reasoning.


Oben Wrote:
Quote:And we know that people with the same positions can be of extremely varied strength. Compare Mihawk to Moria. They are worlds apart. So why, then, are we assuming that Big Mom's strength can be at all compared to Shanks' or Whitebeard's? Why are we assuming she is that strong? Based on her title. By that logic, Mihawk is roughly as weak as Moria.
See, her title makes it necessary for her to have strength. I have already pointed that out above.
So this needs addressing now, doesn't it? =)


Oben Wrote:And that is just your assumption for more assumptions – nothing proves Big Mam is under DD.
Of course not, nor does anything prove that DD is below Big Mom. That's all opinion. My whole beef is with the "Yonkou > Shichibukai" argument, because it is deeply flawed; it is a misunderstanding of what the titles are based on. They are not titles of strength, they are both titles of political influence and infamy. These things are usually granted through personal strength, but it doesn't have to be the case. And more importantly, the assumed strength is not indicated to be stronger than the other; Doflamingo doesn't have to be as weak as Moria, and Big Mom doesn't have to be as strong as Shanks or Whitebeard. For all we know, she might be as weak as Buggy, and just be someone who has managed to gather enough powerful followers to have that sort of political power - enough to be a Yonkou.
I don't think that's the case, obviously, I'm merely pointing out how flawed the idea of ranking these titles is.


Oben Wrote:And yes, DD’s feats are good – but he has never displayed them against Yonkiral level fighters! How can you say he can keep up with them if you don’t know? And don’t come with Big Mam don’t having feats either – she MUST have feats given to her position.
This, btw, is the core statement of my whole argument.
I know that's the core, and it's the core argument that I have a problem with. She does not have to be that strong to be a Yonkou. It is simply not true. She's likely to be, but it isn't a necessity.
Therefore, the argument that Big Mom hasn't shown any abilities at all (besides eating unseen fodder sort of like Wapol) is very valid indeed. Doflamingo has shown his ability not against Yonkiral-level fighters, but he has shown them against top-level fighters like Jozu, who couldn't do jack against Doflamingo.

Feats: Doflamingo has shown great strength, Big Mom has shown nothing.
Hype: Debatable, vague, and complex for both.


Oben Wrote:Actually, no. I’ve always assumed Big Mam’s arc to run like Crocodile’s, with smaller arcs inbetween – which happened. As for DD on the other hand, there barely is anything that can be done inbetween anymore, hence it’s very likely he’ll go down next.
As an example, Water 7 and Lucci would be what Punk Hazard is for DD.
"Barely is anything"? You say that only because you refuse to believe that Big Mom is below Doflamingo - because if this page is true, and Big Mom belongs to Doflamingo just like Caesar does, then Big Mom is the story to put between now and facing Doflamingo.
Reply
#74
Big Mom is stronger than DD and she is not his underling until proven otherwise. Kindly deal with it.
Reply
#75
ArSoNiSt JoE Wrote:With the latest chapter I expect Law to be overrated as hell.
The fuck are you doing here o_o
Reply
#76
Flawfree Princess Wrote:Big Mom is stronger than DD and she is not his underling until proven otherwise. Kindly deal with it.

Not strictly speaking. We don't know if his abilities can work on her, if he's secretly manipulated her without her realizing, etc. etc.

You can never say "it's this until proven otherwise" if you can't give explicit panels in the first place.

Unless you're biceps. But he died.
Reply
#77
m1hawkgsm Wrote:Doubt it.  He's probably just the standard for the new VA levels (roughly).

Though you have to remember there's always certain types of fighters that'll outclass him easily (via ability etc).
Standard for the new VA levels? He beat one pretty handily, and then one-shot another. In all seriousness I think he is in the limbo between VA and Admiral, like Marco. So he can't do jack shit to an Admiral, but VAs are doable with some challenge.
Reply
#78
I think he can match an Admiral, he might not win, but I believe he can.
Reply
#79
strawhats Wrote:I think he can match an Admiral, he might not win, but I believe he can.
This early? That is possible considering he may want the Strawhats, not for the Yonkou confrontation, but the crew confrontation itself, but I'm not too sure.
Reply
#80
DEW Wrote:
strawhats Wrote:I think he can match an Admiral, he might not win, but I believe he can.
This early? That is possible considering he may want the Strawhats, not for the Yonkou confrontation, but the crew confrontation itself, but I'm not too sure.

I thought we were talking about what's his face....Doflamingo Tongue
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)