The most Overrated/Underrated OP-Characters

[peleihno]

That's because there is no set power level for the individual captains. To reach the level of a Yonkou, a captain would need a strong crew and a lot of influence, thus you have nothing to factor strength on. Shanks may be stronger than Mihawk but you cant get that from Shanks being a Yonkou, when Mihawk excels in their fighting style.

Ok

What point am I missing?

I think I already said I'm not seriously arguing that titles decide the entirety of the Mihawk/Shanks debate. I never was. Seems that you think that I am, but I'm not. This is more an argument of which title is superior, I suppose.

@bolded: That Yonkou are the most powerful pirates, plain and simple. Yonkou means four kings/four emperors. It refers to the individual first and foremost. You say the title requires a powerful crew and allies to attain, but so does the title of PK and yet that is a testament to Roger's own power.

[Tokoya]

That's because there is no set power level for the individual captains. To reach the level of a Yonkou, a captain would need a strong crew and a lot of influence, thus you have nothing to factor strength on. Shanks may be stronger than Mihawk but you cant get that from Shanks being a Yonkou, when Mihawk excels in their fighting style.

Ok

What point am I missing?

I think I already said I'm not seriously arguing that titles decide the entirety of the Mihawk/Shanks debate. I never was. Seems that you think that I am, but I'm not. This is more an argument of which title is superior, I suppose.

@bolded: That Yonkou are the most powerful pirates, plain and simple. Yonkou means four kings/four emperors. It refers to the individual first and foremost. You say the title requires a powerful crew and allies to attain, but so does the title of PK and yet that is a testament to Roger's own power.

This is how I see it, Mihawk is the better *Swordsman*, but Shanks is stronger *Overall*

[Oben]

This is how I see it, Mihawk is the better *Swordsman*, but Shanks is stronger *Overall*

I agree with this... seems the most likely.

As for the Yonkou debate, I think it's the following:
They have the four strongest pirate crews, not necessarily the four strongest individuals.
BUT: If they hadn't been extremely strong individuals, they'd never have gained the postition of Yonkou - hence it's likely they are also the top 4 in terms of strength.

[diezdragon]

Common sense says that Shanks is stronger than Mihawk; and that the Yonkou captains are the four strongest pirates in the world. It wouldn't be interesting plot-wise to see Luffy and Co beat down a gang of semi-strong fodders rather than one super-strong Yonkou.

Story-wise, we have no evidence on who's the stronger one. We can't judge either of them from their title, and we've never seen them go all out in a fight. Not against each other, not against anyone.

[zetruz]

As for the Yonkou debate, I think it's the following:
They have the four strongest pirate crews, not necessarily the four strongest individuals.
BUT: If they hadn't been extremely strong individuals, they'd never have gained the postition of Yonkou - hence it's likely they are also the top 4 in terms of strength.

I was with you up until the bolded part. I agree that they are the "greatest" due to the strength of their crews and allies, and I agree that they wouldn't have such strong crews and allies if they weren't monstrously strong themselves. However, I would say this means they're almost guaranteed to be among the top 10 people in the world (and top ~7 pirates). However, look at Doflamingo; we have no idea how powerful his organization is. And look at Mihawk; we know he actively chooses not to have followers. So I would put these in the exact same league, along with the old Admirals; the Yonkiral level. Kizaru, Akainu, Kuzan, Doflamingo, Mihawk, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Shanks, Kaidou, Dragon. These, I think, were the strongest people in the world pre-TS. (Yes, I think they were all stronger than post-Gura Blackbeard, since he hadn't mastered it yet.)
The Yonkou are all among the strongest pirates in the world, for sure. But I don't agree that their infamy and all that means they're necessarily the top four. It just means they're among the top ~6, if you ask me. I think Doflamingo is stronger than Big Mom, and that she - whether she knows it or not - is working for him.

Edit: Oh, and hello guys. =)

[strawhats]

Thank you Zet, I don't remember the last time we agreed :lol:

[m1hawkgsm]

Hey Zet, nice to see you're alive in this wasteland of the forums.

[Oben]

Nice that you found here, zetruz.

I might need to specify my case more: I believe that out of the active pirates the Yonkou hold the greatest strength. This isn't the case for Doflamingo or Mihawk - though I strongly disagree in DD > Big Mam (as you might already know ^^) or any other Yonkou, there is not the slightest indication for it (btw, this isn't connected to your theory of Big Mam working for DD. That could even be the case if he was weaker). As for Mihawk, we have never seen him active pirating, we don#t even know if he was what we can call a pirate.

[zetruz]

Nice that you found here, zetruz.

Thank m1hawkgasm, he sent me here. But I didn't want to pay him back, so I didn't type his name in as referrer. Buhahahahaa!

I might need to specify my case more: I believe that out of the active pirates the Yonkou hold the greatest strength. This isn't the case for Doflamingo or Mihawk - though I strongly disagree in DD > Big Mam (as you might already know ^^) or any other Yonkou, there is not the slightest indication for it (btw, this isn't connected to your theory of Big Mam working for DD. That could even be the case if he was weaker).

There also isn't any indication that he's weaker than Big Mom, either. It's never ever been said that the Yonkou title is higher than the Shichibukai title. Don't get me wrong, the average Yonkou strength is much higher than the average Shichibukai strength, of course, but the bottom Shichibukai do not define the top Shichibukai.
I think Oda has made a point of showing that titles in One Piece are rather superficial. Jinbe one-shot Moria, and Jinbe is presumably way, way below Mihawk and Doflamingo. So the power gap between Moria and Doflamingo is beyond description. The same goes for Vice Admirals. Imagine Garp in his prime - he was roughly on Roger's level. Compare that to Vergo - or rather, don't. You barely can. Titles are extremely vague.
I would imagine the same goes for the Yonkou title - roughly prime Whitebeard was quite a lot stronger than Big Mom. I mean, old-age Whitebeard was the strongest man in the world. And that was after he had fallen from Roger's level.

So, the Yonkou level is never stated to be above that of the Shichibukai level. From what we have seen, Doflamingo is scarily powerful - think about it; he can control even extremely strong Haki users with a single finger, and he can cut (huge) limbs with the same motion. That's a ridiculously strong ability. The latter - the slicing attack - is an extremely strong attack that is instantaneous and invisible. Doflamingo could cut Big Mom's head off by moving a single finger. That's his ability. What reason do we have to think Big Mom can survive that attack? Nothing but hype. Nothing at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm usually in favor of considering hype because I think Oda does it for a reason, but I disagree that Big Mom's hype is above that of Doflamingo's. And in this case, unless Big Mom is a Logia (which makes it much trickier), Doflamingo is shown to be able to slice her up by moving nothing but his finger. I think Doflamingo is constantly underrated, because people think that his Shichibukai title makes him automatically below the Yonkou (not saying you're doing this).

As for Mihawk, we have never seen him active pirating, we don#t even know if he was what we can call a pirate.

Actually, because he is a Shichibukai, he is (or was) by definition a pirate; clicky! The Shichibukai are, or were, all pirates. =)

[Oben]

There also isn't any indication that he's weaker than Big Mom, either. It's never ever been said that the Yonkou title is higher than the Shichibukai title. Don't get me wrong, the average Yonkou strength is much higher than the average Shichibukai strength, of course, but the bottom Shichibukai do not define the top Shichibukai.

Yes, but we know Big Mam's strength is big enough to make her able to play in the very top league. As for DD, we can only assume that. The only thing we know is that he is stronger than VA/Commander-level, but not necessarily Yonkiral-level (let's use that ^^) - but there's much space for DD to fit inbetween. And this is were I think he sits.

I think Oda has made a point of showing that titles in One Piece are rather superficial. Jinbe one-shot Moria, and Jinbe is presumably way, way below Mihawk and Doflamingo. So the power gap between Moria and Doflamingo is beyond description. The same goes for Vice Admirals. Imagine Garp in his prime - he was roughly on Roger's level. Compare that to Vergo - or rather, don't. You barely can. Titles are extremely vague.

Hm, you need to differ between title and position.
Yonkou Shichibukai are titles, Vice-Admiral is a position (Garp doesn't serve as an example though, since he simply turned a promotion down, hence can be considered admiral). I would consider a Marine rank more stable powerwise than the Shichibukai - and after all, the Yonkou we've seen were somewhat equal.

I would imagine the same goes for the Yonkou title - roughly prime Whitebeard was quite a lot stronger than Big Mom. I mean, old-age Whitebeard was the strongest man in the world. And that was after he had fallen from Roger's level

.

I agree with this. But I would consider WB/Roger in a whole category above Yonkiral.

So, the Yonkou level is never stated to be above that of the Shichibukai level. From what we have seen, Doflamingo is scarily powerful - think about it; he can control even extremely strong Haki users with a single finger, and he can cut (huge) limbs with the same motion. That's a ridiculously strong ability. The latter - the slicing attack - is an extremely strong attack that is instantaneous and invisible. Doflamingo could cut Big Mom's head off by moving a single finger. That's his ability. What reason do we have to think Big Mom can survive that attack? Nothing but hype. Nothing at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm usually in favor of considering hype because I think Oda does it for a reason, but I disagree that Big Mom's hype is above that of Doflamingo's. And in this case, unless Big Mom is a Logia (which makes it much trickier), Doflamingo is shown to be able to slice her up by moving nothing but his finger. I think Doflamingo is constantly underrated, because people think that his Shichibukai title makes him automatically below the Yonkou (not saying you're doing this).

It's a BIG stretch to believe that just because DD could cut off Oars leg he can also behead Big Mom. Renember, Oars fell for Moria, who you above consider an example for weakness among the Shichibukai ^^
There are tons of possibilities it wouldn't work. The most simply is her to dodge. Or to block. Haki has never been displayed against the cut - and since there are obious similarities to law's cuts, it could very well help. Etc., etc.

Actually, because he is a Shichibukai, he is (or was) by definition a pirate; clicky! The Shichibukai are, or were, all pirates. =)

Kuma?